Dilara Tuna - Running Towards Adventure

In this episode of EBR Women, Clare Pearson talks with ultra cyclist, trail runner and EBR Scholar Dilara Tuna.

Originally from Germany and now based in Brussels, Dilara’s route into endurance sport has been anything but conventional. Before long-distance cycling and ultrarunning, there was a childhood shaped by horse riding, responsibility, bad weather, and learning to keep going because the job still had to be done.

That attitude now carries into bikepacking races, mountain trails and long unsupported adventures. Dilara has recently finished first female at ACT3 in Belgium and is preparing for the Trans Balkan Race, a demanding off-road bikepacking race across the Balkans. Last year she was also the second female finisher and 8th overall at GranGuanche.

But this conversation is not about results.

Clare and Dilara talk about curiosity, confidence, learning through experience, the cost and complexity of endurance sport, and what it means to stop keeping yourself small. Dilara reflects on why she is drawn to new places and unfamiliar routes, how she approaches big challenges without over-controlling every detail, and why structured support through the EBR Scholarship felt like the right next step.

It is a thoughtful conversation about adventure, self-belief, and the quiet work of becoming a more capable athlete.

Listen if you are interested in:
ultra cycling, trail running, bikepacking, women in endurance sport, confidence, coaching, and long-distance adventure.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Women have always been powerful. Throughout history, we've been peddling, running, and climbing our way to that unique freedom that only movement outdoors can bring. Let's keep inspiring each other. Join me each month as I talk to inspiring women who quietly get on with their everyday lives whilst doing amazing things in nature. So, yeah, thank you. Thanks for coming on our podcast. It's very nice to have you. I was just looking at Dot Watcher and the things you've done. It's very impressive, it's very inspiring. Thanks. Yeah. So what I thought would be good is if, because some people will know you, some people won't know you, is if you could just say a little bit about yourself and how you came to cycling.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Yeah. Um so I um right now I'm uh based in Brussels, Belgium, um, originally from Germany. I haven't lived there in a really long time. Um, and I really got into long-distance cycling and running uh a few years ago. Um I did start just before the pandemic. Um and just uh I've always been kind of fascinated with um cycling, but my surroundings, no one was really cycling into cycling or really into running. I've always been quite active, but I've more of a I used to do horse riding uh all my life and all my student life. Um and then that was basically all my free time went into horse riding. Um and then I moved to Belgium and I got into ice skating. And my ice skating instructor, he uh um he I wanted to cycle like a um kind of famous and well-known uh tour in the Netherlands where they cycle uh 200 something kilometers um in Friesland in the north, and my ice skating instructor told me that he does it since like ages, and he was like, Oh, you can you can lend my bike and you can you can practice with me, and uh then we did some of the C close, which is like uh tourist cycling routes and um uh organized events here in Belgium. Um yeah, and that's all I rolled in, and then I I did some of those, and then I did the 200, I think it's 230k or something, 35, um, with him and my friends, and then it all started, and then I I bought a road bike and uh did some bikepacking trips with my friends and um and then uh rolled into running um through the 20k of Brussels, which is like one of the biggest running events we have, um with work, and then I was fascinated at the finish line. I was like, okay, that's cool, but I I never want to run on the road again. Um and then I went into got into trail running, um, and then I got into I got to meet people that run really, really long. Um, because I always thought that a marathon is like the maximum thing that people run, which is not true. Yeah, um, and then I got to know people that run 100 milers and longer, and then I got fascinated by that, and then I tried it out and it suits me quite well. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Yeah, yeah. Um fascinating story. Um horse riding, ice skating.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

Um speed skating, by the way. I think people get confused. No, uh speed skating, yeah, no figure skating. No, I'm not a very, very, very athletic, dancey kind of uh rhythmic uh person. So it was speed skating for sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Yeah, yeah. Um, how well do you think they prepared you then for the for the cycling and the running?

SPEAKER_02 4:05

Uh I think the horse riding did prepare me all my life for being out in harsh conditions actually, um, and like really taking care of yourself. Uh, because I used to do horse riding since I'm six years old. And I think I went horse riding daily since I'm 10. Um, and I spent every minute outside, and we had like it wasn't really a stable where I grew up, it was like a shed where we just had some horses in a barn, and yeah, it was just like you go out in 35 degrees and you go out in pouring, pissing rain, um, wind, ice, snow, everything. Um, and you just have fun because you have to you have to go because um yeah, the horses can't really let themselves out.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Yeah, they need it, that's part of who they are.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Yeah, and you also learn you have to, which is funny because you have to train them. You cannot just um expect them to do well on the competitions if you haven't done anything the week before. Um, and you really think about like structured training, like you think, oh, what am I doing today? Oh, maybe today he's sore because of this, and we did yesterday, and leading up to the competition, you adjust everything, um, which is funny because I don't really do that for myself.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

I don't know. I was just gonna ask, does that help you be a bit more mindful about your own wellness and your own training?

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Um, I I know, I would say I know quite a bit, but to really apply everything, I don't I haven't really done anything. Um no, I'm not very good at structuring myself and motivating myself, but um, yeah, I was quite good with that with the horses. Like you're really conscious about what you're training and what you're training for, and what you're yeah, what you still have to twist and tweak and uh what they eat. Uh yeah, so it's totally different than I'm doing for myself because for myself I'm not very good at that.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Yeah, yeah. I think I mean I think it's true, even I mean, even as coaches, we're the same, we've we expect far more from ourselves than than is sensible. Yeah, we sort of have this other other rule for us which we don't apply to to the people we we work with for sure.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

Yeah, you I I really feel like with horse riding, you really feel an maybe it changed us. It's it's been 20 years almost that I haven't really done no, maybe 15 years I haven't really done horse riding. Um maybe now it's shifted, but we weren't doing anything for the riders, it was just the horse and all the knowledge, everything. Yeah, and I think that's kind of uh well, I I guess I do know how to train someone else, a horse basically, yeah. Um yeah, but not myself.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

It's very hard to be objective with yourself as well, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And um, yeah, so yeah, and that's and all the like going out in any weather, I think that gives you a lot of responsibility, and um it really like makes you it prepares you for going out in any weather, no matter what. Like um, you just gotta do it, and I think that's the same in like ultrarunning and ultra cycling. It's uh if you're in a race, well, you've got to finish the job, and no matter what.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Yeah, yeah. And I think just having that experience of being out in bad weather can give you confidence as well. Um, it was interesting. I was just thinking about Dale's divide um actually a couple of weeks ago now, and obviously they had really bad weather. Um, and you know, you'd be forgiven to think, oh, you just need to be tougher.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Um, but I think actually a lot of it is just the experience of knowing, oh no, I've been here before, I've had an experience like this, and this is what I did, and and it was all right. And if you've never had that, it's really hard to carry on. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Yeah, and I'm like, okay, I shouldn't say that probably, but I keep like, but did you die? And then last time you didn't die, so it's probably gonna be fine. Yeah, yeah. And um, I mean, we've gone out, and when we were like 12 years old, we've gone out on our bikes to go to the horses because there's no way my parents wouldn't drive me. Um, yeah, and there is no way, so we had to cycle like an hour to the stable and back and then train the horses, and there's no way you're not going because you have to. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that that sense as well of just being independent of having to well, Jenny Tuff says solve your own problems, doesn't she? You know, you can't you can't just sit there and think somebody's got to come and help me, because that that doesn't happen. Yeah. Um, it doesn't happen in life a lot of the time, and it certainly doesn't happen in the middle of an ultra. You've you've got to sort yourself out. Yeah. Um, so good psychological base as well.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Yeah, I think so. I never thought about it, but then I thought about my challenge, and I was like, well, we've kind of kind of gotten toughened up because my parents were like, I mean, it's like a storm out, and they're like, Yeah, you want to go horse riding, you go horse riding, but um yeah, yeah, but we're not taking you.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Yeah, exactly. They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, and then the speed skating. And I know you mentioned um on Instagram a few weeks ago about your coach, your speed skating coach, and how it inspired you to cycle. Um, and I don't think you're the only person who does has done that transition. I think there are a few pro mountain bikers who've done it as well, haven't they? Um, how do you think that helped prepare you for long ultra ultra vents?

SPEAKER_02 9:48

Um I think the speed skating hasn't had much of an impact actually, more than um um, but of course, like again, another consciousness of your body as well. I s I think, especially with running um of your yeah, different parts of your body that have a different because in speed skating a lot of things have an impact, like really small things add up in the bigger picture, which I think in cyclings, at least on my level of cycling and mountain biking, it doesn't really. I mean, of course, there's always things you can twist and you can you can just tweak and and learn and everything, but in speed skating, in mountain biking, that doesn't really have an impact on my level of because I'm not doing like downhill mountain biking or any super technical um technical cycling, but with running you realize with ice skating, for example, that any kind of position of your body in what yeah, it has an impact on your speed. Um and also if you if you just practice, you get better at it. Um and really small things in the end, they seem very small, but then they end up being very important in the bigger picture. Um, and that is something that in speed skating matters a lot. Um, because sometimes you really like you really just tweak, I mean, it can be millimeters in your blades or in how you position your body in the in the corners or whatsoever, and it really has a big impact on how you skate. Um yeah, and I mean that's really and for me that's fascinating. I got the same now with I'm more into cross-country skiing now in the winter. It's the same, you probably know it's um really small things, and you're like, how does that have an impact? And it does have an impact, and for running, it never seems to have like a big impact, like how you run, like your economy of like how you run, but you should sometimes you should just yeah, maybe twist and tweak some things, and then um, yeah, you can change how you actually run and you're um like yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Yeah, I mean we see all kinds of running, don't we? Yeah, even at top levels it Haley, Gabrielle Salassie with his swinging arm because he used to run carrying books, and Paula Radcliffe with a nodding head, and it's it's not they're running really, really well. Yeah, um, but I think you're right in that um you get away with it with running, but it I think the longer you go, the the more you pay. So if you can be efficient, it pays off um in you know kilometer 90 or kilometer 130. Yeah, uh whereas you you might get away with it a little bit more in you know a traditional 42k.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Exactly, yeah. And um, I mean a lot of things people I think you never think about how you run um until yeah, you run really, I mean, fast distances or really long distances, and then it has an impact on you, and then you might have to go back and see, okay, how can I tweak this? Um, yeah, because you can do a lot about your I mean, everyone knows they're talking about four foot runner, mid-foot runner, heel striker. Um and there is a place for all of them in ultrarunning. Um because I remember I remember when I started running, everyone was telling me you have to be a four foot runner, you've got to be a four-foot runner, and then you get into ultrarunning, and everyone's like, no, no, that's not the way to be. So um, yeah, so I think that's that's what it has in common actually with uh ice skating with the speed skating, because all these little little things that you adjust are leading up to a long-term um difference. Um a bit more eye for in detail because running is not just running, and I think people don't really, a lot of people don't understand.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Um I mean one of the things that um come comes to my mind when I think of you is nomad. I don't know whether you would agree with that, but you you are somebody who moves. You move obviously when you're doing your events and you're cycling and you're running, but even between that, you you're moving around quite a lot. Um would you agree with that? Is that a fair fair assessment of you? Yeah, I would say so.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

Yeah, I pay I pay taxes in Belgium and I I have my base, my home base here, but in general, I'm just on the road all the time for work and pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Yeah, yeah. And where does that come from for you?

SPEAKER_02 14:40

Um well, I think also I've something I've been thinking about because people think you're keep telling you, of course, when you're mid-30s and you're like moving around a lot and you haven't settled down, everyone's telling you you're running away from something. And then one of my colleagues said, No, you're not running away from something, you're running towards things. And I'm like, that's exactly what I think. Um is nice to see it because it's not a fear of something, it's just it's not this fear of missing out, and it's really just curiosity, and um, I'm just really happy and grateful and thankful to see to be able to see these things, um, to discover new places, meet new people, yeah. Um, and like really curiosity because uh we didn't travel much when I was a kid, not at all, actually. Um uh, but somehow we were always curious, we were always outside and discovering new things. We were just not traveling a lot, but I think um the word is so big, yeah, yeah. And uh so I just really it makes me I really get a a rush from like a kind of a kick from seeing new places and um yeah, and I'm really glad that my work gets me to new places and meeting new people all the time.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's a real privilege, isn't it? If you if you like not for everybody, some people suspect.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

Yeah, because I I do work with a lot of people in countries that are less privileged, that their passport is just I work in in Kyrgyzstan, I work in Jordan, I work in uh Albania, and for a lot of my colleagues it's not that easy to just travel. Um, so I do think it's a bit of um like um, I don't know, it's a privilege that we should take advantage of. Um also for other people because they cannot.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

Yeah, I mean, particularly women in certain areas, they're they're really not they've not got that freedom.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

No. No, and also my I mean, in my if I look at myself, like my mom was very sick when we were younger. Um, so we never traveled, and she could never travel, even though I know she was a very curious and very active person, so I also kind of feel um, I mean, it's not um that I have to, but I really like to see new things in the places um because I can. Yeah, other people cannot, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Yeah, yeah, and why not take advantage of that? Exactly. So does that um does that translate into the the races that you do and the events that you do?

SPEAKER_02 17:23

Yeah, I would say, yeah, yeah. I really try. Of course, sometimes you finish a race and you're like, oh, I would love to do that again, the people, the atmosphere, but then if you if you've done a race already and you kind of know that takes the interest off, because I really want, I really just want to see. I I I sign up for races of places where I've never been, and I'm just so excited to go out. And I mean, you just the unknown, like to just see new mountains, new new paths, and yeah, you just don't know how it looks like and what's gonna happen. So yeah, yeah. Normally I just sign up for races that I haven't in areas I haven't been before, or yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Yeah, yeah. That's a great way to approach it as well, I think. Because I think people can get a bit dialed in on, oh well, I've did this in this time last year, so I've got to do it better this year, I've got to do it, you know, in a better time.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Yeah, and I mean I'm quite fascinated when I meet people and they're like, oh, I've done this four times. And I'm like, wow, chapeau, like um, that's incredible because I couldn't, I think mentally it would be really hard for me to do something multiple times, like the same, if I would know what's coming.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

Yeah, it's a different curiosity, I think. It's it's not a curiosity necessarily about the place, it's a curio an inward curiosity about what what can I do? How can I how can I improve myself? How can I improve my athletic self through this? Um, not that you can't have that by doing different races as well.

SPEAKER_02 18:57

Yeah, and maybe I'm even um also scared of the um maybe I'm not gonna be better than last time. That would be um something I would be scared of. Maybe I would want to improve and then you're not improving, and then I would be disappointed. So it's just um not to not do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

Yeah. Well, you did in 2022 you did the Grand Guan Show. Yeah. And we're 15th. And you did it last year and you were eighth. So evidence suggests that you can improve.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

I I do actually because the Grand Granche in 2022 was my first event. Um, I remember I had no idea. If I look back, I had the same bike, but approaching something where you've had some experience by now. Um, I mean, it's just interesting to look at like what did you think last time you did this that you could get away with this? Um, and also seeing that I was actually faster on some trails, so I'm like, oh, that's quite nice actually. Um, but the whole, I mean, there was not comparable. 2022 me and 2025 me was really different.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Yeah, that experience has a massive impact. I think particularly I think in long events, I think it gives you a lot of confidence. Um definitely. Um, so what are your plans for this season then?

SPEAKER_02 20:28

Yeah, um, so first up is um well, I haven't because the last years I think I signed up a bit crazy for too many events because I just get so excited, and then as you probably know, especially for ultra-running events, you have to sign up in December, November, sometimes even for the season. Yeah, yeah. Um, which is a bit, I understand it, and it's also there's more demand, but it's just impossible to plan that far ahead. Um also I work in high season because I work in tourism most of the time. Um, and a lot of events unfortunately are in August, September.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Um yeah, when you're working, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

Yeah, when I'm working, where it's like really important for me to actually work. Um, so I signed up for the Trans Balkan race end of May. And it's funny because a lot of like I remember the first time I met some, like he was a very impressive cyclist um from Italy and uh on the Illyrian loop, and he was telling me about it, and he was like, God, it was so hard. And I was like, hmm, tempting. Yeah, that doesn't surprise me that that's what attracted you. Yeah, so I was like, Oh, that's maybe that that might be nice. Um, because I've done a race in uh or an event in in Albania and I work in Albania in the summer. Um, but I haven't been to any of the other like really cycled in any of the other Balkan countries, so uh I was quite tempted by. That. So I didn't really sign up for a lot of events actually. Also, because I also want to enjoy just cycling and doing some fast packing, so running and sleeping outside or in huts. Yeah.

unknown 22:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

Just enjoying myself and my free time. And then after the Trans Balkan race, potentially, hopefully, me and my friend Thomas will run the peak of the Balkan loop. Yeah. Which is 195 kilometer loop. And uh yeah, we are thinking of attempting the FKT, but let's let's see about that after the rips.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Do you know what the FKT is for that?

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Well, Thomas probably knows I'm not really good at it. I just saw there is an FKT, and I was like, great, sounds good. Sounds like a nice idea. And I do not think it was very fast. So um oh well, yeah, but then the idea I've never done any FKT because obviously I'm like, why would I why would I try to beat someone else on this route? But um it was just a nice idea, maybe it keeps us going after the Trans Balkan race. I think it's like four 1400 kilometers. Um so yeah, and it's just a very, very beautiful route, the uh peak of the Balkans. Um, and when I work I only do like a part of it, so I was always very curious of doing the whole loop. Um, and also doing it justice because we skip quite a lot of the parts, and uh I just feel like I have to do the whole route. So that was the idea of um uh of this uh like uh May June project. Um and then in July um since yeah, I met my one ultra-running friend Jonathan, he has done I think every existing crazy ultra race in the world. Um yeah, uh he's from Reunion Island, and he did the famous Diagonale de Fou 10 times now.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Oh, right, okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

I mean he's really he's really I mean it's insane. And I remember the first few times we talked about some races he did, and was the crossing Switzerland. Um and he was just so so excited about it, and he said it was such a nice event. Um, and since then it has been on top of my mind because I remember looking at his travel and I was like, you did what 390 kilometers of running? Um and he just doesn't stop talking about the event because he said it was just so nice. Um and it's a very small event, like it's not one of these super commercialized um events. Let's not drop any names, but yeah, you know what I'm talking about. Um, and I really like to support these kind of races as well. And I know the organ one of the organizers because I met him on another event, and I was like, oh, this is really cool and really organized with like all heart and passion. Um, so I signed up for it this year. Um, because the idea from my friend Tom again was um that he wanted to, he has a bit of a midlife crisis, I think, and then he wanted to cross Switzerland by bike and running. Um so he calls it the doubles. Um okay yeah, so that's that's the idea, but um as yeah, the there is nothing really signed up. It's uh yeah, I'm just gonna try to run the uh crossing Switzerland event. Um run walk, whatsoever it would be. Um also because I'm quite curious how um it's it's different to approach uh a hundred miler and then something that is almost 400 kilometers long.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Yeah, completely different. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

I heard it's easier.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Yeah, I don't I mean I've never done it, but um either. I guess um maybe easier in some respects and harder in others.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

Yeah, so I'm quite curious because that's very I mean, I remember the first time I signed up for a 50k. I was like, what how do you do this? Like, I mean, I have no idea, and I'm not I mean, I'm a guide, so I'm not going into things stupid and dangerously. I'm really trying to be on the safe side, but I also am not the best prepared person. So I go into things a bit blindly, maybe, maybe even with some, yeah. So normally I'm like, oh, so many learnings, and then you learn and then you take it for the next one, and then you do your first 100k run, and you're like, I have no idea how this is gonna work out. Um, and then you go into a 100 miler and you're like, Wow, that's totally different than the 100k I did before. So and I mean, then in the end, as you know, probably you there's not so many things, only so many things you can actually compare, um prepare for. So there's always an unknown, yeah. But I don't I think the most important is that you're not being stupid, um as in putt yourself into some weird danger that is unnecessary.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Um yeah, I think there's a difference between um not pr not being like super super prepared, as in having every single sort of stop worked out and stuff, yeah, but with a base, a good base and knowledge of the mountains, and just going in knowing nothing. Um and I certainly think that if you've got the good base and knowledge and you've got the equipment you need to stay safe, um, then that flexibility can help. Because you need to be flexible, because lots of things can happen.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

Yeah, and I think when you prepare too much, probably that gets you into more mental struggles because things will never work out as they I mean, if you're not even even if you're a paid professional athlete, you and every single step of the way is planned out. There are so many things that go wrong, and I guess that's even more frustrating and more hard mentally uh than if you just have a vague plan and it will yeah, and some things along the way won't turn out the way you thought they would.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Yeah, and just being able to adapt, and you know, going back to what you were saying about well, I'm gonna get it done, I'm gonna do it. So this is the situation as it is now, so how can I keep moving forward?

SPEAKER_02 28:34

Yeah, and I mean, uh of course I'm not speaking about being injured or whatever, that's a different story. But I mean, yeah, let's see, let's say you're not injured, everything's fine, yeah. Just how can you get to the finish line and get the job done?

SPEAKER_00 28:46

So um, absolutely, absolutely. Um, it's a good strength, I think, to be able to do that. Yeah, and it um go on.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

Oh no, yeah, it teaches you, I mean, a lot of things, and you learn every time you learn something new, and every time you you adapt. Uh yeah, you have to be adaptable. And um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Yeah, absolutely. And the more experience you have, the more you experience you can draw on and think, oh, I can do it this way. This will work. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, definitely. So you talked a little bit about um coaching, haven't we? And you know, sort of how you know your care for your horses was possibly um better than your care for yourself. Um, and you have applied for the EBR scholarship, you are one of our EBR scholars. Um, so what was it that attracted you to a coaching program then?

SPEAKER_02 29:44

Um well, because I I mean I've been doing this stuff, this like running, cycling things for a few years now. Um and I would say I was nothing was ever structured, also because I tend to either sign up for too many races or not enough races, or races that are out of my league, and I plan too many things, and then I have work, which is quite demanding, um, time-wise and physical as well and mental. Um, and so I've kind of like lost track of focusing on myself and improving as an athlete. Um and uh I always thought, okay, maybe that's just it. That's just uh you just get through it, it's fine. If you finish it, it's fine. Normally I tend to finish somehow. Um, and then I also thought, ah, maybe this is it, that's peak for you. You can't improve much more. It's just um, this is who you are. You just I don't know, you can go long, but you're slow. This is it, this is fine. Um, but then I was like, I was quite curious. I was like, maybe I can improve actually, and maybe if I do a bit more structured training um and have someone help me, and nutrition-wise and training-wise, maybe I can actually get better and stronger. Um, but uh yeah, and then I was like, okay, maybe I'll maybe I'll try and hope not to get too frustrated by maybe not improving. Um yeah, and then I saw the scholarship and I was like, uh, that sounds like the perfect match, actually, because it's kind of an all-in-package. Um, because ultra cycling and running is not just training, it's uh it's gear, it's uh fuel, it's I mean it's everything. Um and uh and yeah, I just wanted to try it. And I mean, it really took me a long time. I didn't want to get a coach because I really thought maybe it's gonna be just disappointing for me. And I'm is he's just gonna tell me this is it, you can't improve, you're just average. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then um, yeah, yeah, and then also being a bit scared of like, what if I put a lot of work into this and then I don't get better? That would be frustrating. Um, so I just keep myself into the belief I don't really train, and then if I'm just average, it's gonna be fine. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

But then I really interesting psychology that we have um around the fear of failure, the fear of failing, you know, whatever it is that we've decided we should achieve. And then that sort of feeding into our confidence that, oh well, this is me, this is my level, I don't have another level. Um, and also then feeding into this um this sort of inability to invest in ourselves and think, do you know what I'm gonna in I'm really gonna invest in myself here and try and try and do what's you know, do the best I can. Um and you're right, of course, nobody knows the outcome at all. Um chances are if you change the stimulus with someone who's experienced enough, things things will get better. But um it's a risk, isn't it? I was just thinking, you reminded me of what May said when I was chatting with um May, and she said uh I decided to take take a risk, take a risk for myself.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

Um it's really out of my my comfort zone actually to um to kind of um yeah to just okay, maybe I can actually improve and maybe well let's try this more structured training input and work on work on nutrition, work on my training and work on uh the mental side, and then maybe you can actually uh yeah. And if not, that's also fine. And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Yeah. Do you think that's a specifically female trait?

SPEAKER_02 33:59

I guess so. Yeah. I I guess, yeah, I guess that's more of um this whole keeping yourself small. Um yeah, and also maybe fear of maybe sometimes it's even a fear of not getting better, but maybe yeah, you don't want you wanna yeah, you want to keep yourself small. You want to be like under the radar, like, oh it's it's fine, I'm here, I'm not taking too much space, it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Yeah, yeah. It's an interesting concept, isn't it? That but I think statistics seem to show, you know, information seems to show that women seem to underestimate their own capacity.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

I mean 100% if you if you look at the women around you, you're like, I mean, even in in my work, I have a lot of couples in my groups, and um it's always the the women are so more so much more timid and and careful and like unreal. Oh no, I I would I wouldn't be possibly doing that, I couldn't do that. And the guys they just go in and they're like, Yeah, here we are, I'm gonna try that. I can do it.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's true. Um, I'm not sure. I think there's probably quite a lot that goes into that in terms of culture and um how we're brought up and just general psychology as well. But there is there is a clear trend, I think, for women to feel less confident. Um and on that basis, I wondered if you if you had a message for women out there who are maybe thinking about doing something or having that experience of oh no, I can only do this, this is my limit, can't do any more. What would you what would you say to those women and girls?

SPEAKER_02 35:50

Well, I I think one of my friends a few years ago, she said it was work-related, but I think it I I really liked what she said. She said, 'Oh, we're just do all doing what we can, do we? Like we're doing our best. Um, and I think that's kind of nice because you I me personally, I try to I really beat myself up about things. I'm like, in my eyes, I kind of failed or something. But then in the end, if I did my best, yeah, then uh that's kind of satisfying. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

So I know we can ask any more of you, really.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And also, I mean, what keeps you because let's be honest, getting out of bed every day, and like also it's not all running in beautiful mountains and mountain ridges and uh forests is also like going on a track and doing some stupid 50k loop uh all over and over again with a bike. Um, or do I mean it's not all uh all Instagram uh beautiful trails all day, every day. Um, but then you kind of um realize that if you want to reach something more, then you you also gotta do the the the boring parts, and um yeah, and um and also like my friend Thomas says, you signed up for this, so you just kind of you can't complain about it because you just you signed up for it, you paid for it, so um you choose to be here. That's what he says, yeah. Yeah, so um, yeah, that's kind of nice. And again, we're privileged to do these things. We have exactly. I mean, I have like I have so many friends with like knee problems and other health problems, and looking at my mom not being able to, she was quite um uh uh into badminton. Um, that was her sports, couldn't pursue it anymore, volleyball couldn't pursue it anymore. And then I'm like, why who am I why am I complaining? I have two legs, I have a very healthy, fit body that does everything that I put it through. So there's really very little I should complain about. So um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

Yeah, yeah, it's it's amazing, is it, how um especially if it's someone we're close to and we love and respect, when we we see how frustrated they can be and we see what what we have, that can that can be uh an eye-opener and it can be an inspiration in itself, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

Yeah, and especially everyone that still works with what they have, like if you have some um like restrictions physically, um, and even uh or time-wise or whatsoever, but if you do the best you can with what you have, that's uh all you can do, right?

SPEAKER_00 38:35

Yeah, yeah. And keep, as you say, keep running towards rather than running away. That's the way to be, for sure, for sure. Um, I wanted to talk a little bit about kit with you because I think I think this can be restrictive, and I've I've chatted to other other people about this in terms of kit's not cheap. I mean, running kit used to be cheap, it's not cheap anymore. Um and so um, you know, it's it's lovely to get out in the mountains and do the things that we love. Um, but access to good kit can can make a difference, I think. So I wondered what um how that fits for you, how you manage kit, how you manage to get the pieces of kit that you need, and and the difference it makes when you get the kit you need.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

Yeah. Um, yeah, that's actually interesting because especially with someone like me, I mean, I I come from the corporate world where you work nine to five, you got a good paycheck, everything's fine. If you want something, you buy it. Um, but now I live in a flat chair, I I'm a seasonal worker, I'm a freelancer. Um money is tight, uh, and it a lot of it comes down to money basically. First, it I mean, a lot of things come down to knowledge as well. If I look at my bike four years ago, it's still the same bike, but a lot of things have changed based on my needs and everything. Um, starting with lights. Like I remember I always consult other people because I would never I don't trust myself in then again, that's probably also a bit of a female thing. Um, I always think other people are more knowledgeable and skilled than me. So I would never buy something out of my own experience. I always would consult so and so many people and just make sure that I get the best out of it, uh, what they advise me to. Uh, but of course, uh, five years ago I had other cycling friends that I would take as a reference, and I do have now. Um, and uh yeah, that's they changed a lot, and there's just so many things. I mean, money can buy you a lot of convenience in endurance sports. Um, like uh I remember doing my first 120k run, and I mean I had these like really cheap running um pants, um, shorts, and some technical t-shirts, and some random decathlon backpack, which I mean, decathlon makes amazing things, by the way. Um, and then some poles. But then this guy I was running with, he came to an aid station, he had a whole uh second bag with another set of poles and shorts and leggings and this and that. And I was like, oh wow, okay. But that means that means quite a lot of money because running poles are expensive. Um, and I'm happy that I have one good pair. I can't have three pairs. Um and even running shorts, as you say, like really good running shorts, they're they're not cheap. Um, you go through a lot of running shoes. If you run 100k races, you go through a few pairs, like and you need different types of pairs, and it all adds up. I mean, running is not cheap. We all think running is cheap until you got into ultra trail running, and then it's not cheap anymore. Um, and the same with cycling. I mean, also you have to try out things, you have to try them over long term. Um, I think at one point I had like seven saddles at home just to try them because not every brand allows you to try them and then send them back. Um, so all these things, like for me, it's especially so I've I've made it kind of a thing to we have a lot of local cycling WhatsApp groups, men, women, everything. Um to say, hey, listen, I have these saddles at home. If anyone wants to try them, you can try borrow them for a few weeks and then either you buy it or you bring it back. Because I just think personally it's really sad that you have to. I also don't like to buy things that I don't need. Um, yeah, I'm just very conscious about I don't uh I I try to stay away from all this consumerism and uh over-consumerism. Um so for me, it's also a lot of things is like, can I just try it before I buy it? Um which yeah, also like I mean, bike lights, all these things are really, really expensive. Um and I mean you want to invest and you know why you invest, like I have learned, you have to invest in good light. It's very essential in cycling and exactly, yeah. And if I think back, oh I don't even want to think about Grand Guanchi 2022, it was a disaster for me. Like everything was just it was horrible. Um, but uh yeah, and that's that's things that they just they cost a lot of money and get like um yeah, I mean, yeah, you can get a cheaper alternative, but most of the times um yeah, and it gets more expensive. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You get what you pay for a lot of the time. It is, yeah. And it's all worth it, but you have to to know what you actually need, and some things they're not worth. Investing more money than the bare minimum, but some things they're really worth investing in. But you have to or at least me personally, I really have to see the added value of the price I pay. So um yeah. And for me, it's really you have to try things. I mean, you know what you're gonna do, but you have to try them. It's like tires and all these things, you have to try them and feel how it works for you.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

Um yeah, yeah, absolutely. Kit's very personal, isn't it? Yeah. Um I mean, one of the things that we really wanted with the scholarship was to give give access to to some kit that perhaps people couldn't otherwise have afforded. And it's I mean it's a small amount, um, but something is is usually better than nothing if you can't afford anything.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

It definitely gets you started, like um, you can take it and go out in the field, and yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

Um, and I think I think for you that worked quite well because PedLed are actually sponsoring you as an individual now as well, aren't they? So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:02

So that's good. Yeah, because because technical gear is just very essential. If you um I mean, I went to my first trail running trail race, and it was just my rain jacket was a disaster, my shoes were a disaster, my socks were a disaster, like every yeah. And then, as you know, like 100 miles, you have like if I think about crossing Switzerland, I we're gonna have I don't know how many aid stations and dropbacks. So you want a new pair of shoes, a new pair of socks. Um a new pair of shoes, maybe not, but a new pair of socks, and you want a backup set of poles, and you want I don't know how many technical t-shirts and another rain jacket. One rain jacket's not enough because it's gonna be soaked, and yeah. I remember coming into the a dropback station on my first 120k race, and I was like, ah, my rain jacket's soaked. I don't have a second one. My t-shirt's soaked, I don't have a second one. Yeah, but yeah, and um, so yeah, things. I mean, you can obviously get very far with very basic things, but at one point you have to opt your game a little bit, and then it's getting expensive.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

So yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. Um, well, we're really excited with your season, Delara. I can't wait to see how you do. Um, I can't wait to see how the training helps as well, um, and in what what ways that it helps. Um I think um there's always a chance to improve. Always. Um, I would definitely say that to everybody. Um obviously as we age the improvement is different.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

Yeah, I mean, I would always tell you I would always obviously encourage other people to go training and get a coach, but you don't advise yourself the same as you advise other people, right?

SPEAKER_00 46:54

No, no, I think I I think a lot of the time what stops um women getting a coach is that um sort of inbuilt thing of not investing in themselves, um, either because it's just some of the things we were talking about before with fear and um you know not feeling worth it, not feeling good enough. Yeah, um, and for women with families is it's often just that, well, no, because I've you know, I've got to spend money on the kids and I've got to spend money on this and that and the other, and they're they're last every time they're last. Um but um I think if if we can inspire our our daughters and the the women and the the girls who are coming up to invest in themselves and to to feel worth it, I think that will be a a job well done. Yeah. Um and it's people like you getting out there and doing things that are doing that, so that's that's great.

SPEAKER_02 47:49

Yeah, because I I mean you always think if you like 10 years back and you see people doing this, you're like, wow, that's so aspiring, but I would never be able to do that. And then you're here and you're doing it. Um and sometimes it's also nice to just take a step back and look from the outside perspective and be like, um, seven years ago, I didn't I just managed to run five kilometers with on and off stopping, running, stopping, running, and um yeah, now I can say I can run uh 100 miles, so I mean that's that's quite incredible, yeah, to think about that. Um yeah, and I I mean I I was always scared of the dark as a kid, I would never have gone out in a forest in the dark, and now I cycle and run for hours alone in the dark. So yeah, so that's really cool to sometimes be like listen, put it in perspective, like look where you come from. Um yeah, and I come from no means from some kind of athletic background, like I've I was a horse riding girl for most of my life. Um yeah, yeah, yeah, so I think that's really cool, and uh yeah, so just to get like even my friends that have nothing to do with sports, like to just motivate them to get hiking or go running or do whatever else, um yeah, it's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. Having someone who's in it with you can make a real big difference to how consistent you are with your training and also to how you complete your event. Endurance bike and run. We've got years of experience of working with women, helping them to achieve that big idea. So if you'd like some help and support, you can contact me at Claire at endurancebike and run dot com. That's C-L-A-R-E at endurancebike and run.com, or you can check out our coaching services at endurancebike and run.com. We have group training programmes as well as one-to-one coaching options. We look forward to hearing from you soon.